Yearly recurring donation button?

I’ve noticed this pattern in apps like wikipedia, archive.org and signal where every so often (yearly?) they’ll prompt you to donate, with a easy way to dismiss it. Wondering if something similar would be fitting in Kinopio that only paid users would see (unpaid users will likely be dedicated enough, and would already have the option to upgrade).

The donation dialog would be reframed as a way to go above and beyond to support development/the-mission of joyful indie software.

What do you think of this idea? no bad answers :slight_smile:


CleanShot 2024-11-19 at 10.47.13@2x

only paid users would see

I think free/non-paying users should be the ones seeing it.

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But isn’t that awkward because If you’re free then you haven’t deemed the software worth paying for , so why would you donate?

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I had this same instinct. Why would paid users donate if they are already paying? I could see paid users taking it the wrong way (“I’m already paying, why are you asking me for more?”)

For free users, maybe they want a way to support indie dev once, even though they don’t care to subscribe.

I can understand both arguments. Wikipedia seems a little different because there is no “paid” user (that I know of).

Alright guess I won’t do this then. If there is a scenario where it makes sense to show ppl a donate btn do let me know, maybe I’ll add it to the bottom of bulletin emails

I still think the Donate banner is a good idea.
I’d try it (for free users) and see.

Related:
There might be an issue overall about the Kinopio SaaS, and its free tier:
Take for example Dropbox, users might be trying to use the Free tier as much as possible without upgrading. I know because I’ve never paid for it. And I would rather delete stuff than upgrade.

Something to think about.

I think some people will never want to spend money on software no matter what it does. At the end of the day without switching to an ad-supported model (which i have no intention of doing) , i will never probably get money out of those users directly , and that’s fine.

In the case of dropbox, free users brought them a lot of value indirectly in the early days because it spread word about the product that’d eventually reach the ears of ppl (but especially businesses) that would pay for it

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I’d also do some pricing experiments like trials

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I pay for kinopio and I think the value I get from it exceeds what I pay and I love the idea of supporting independent software so given the opportunity I would contribute more.

That said, I think asking for donations while having a paid service is tricky because it feels like on the one hand it’s a business and on the other it’s a charity, it’s contradictory. A user doesn’t know how to feel. I don’t think that contradiction is fundamental, though, it can be overcome, but it requires some finesse.

A good example of the finesse is deck.blue, a Bluesky client (Tweetdeck but for Bluesky) made by a solo developer. Rather than sell traditional subscriptions, the project has a Patreon through which people can support the project and at the same time they unlock new features… which is actually just the traditional software-as-a-service subscription model but it has a very different vibe. They’re now approaching 1,000 paid subscribers.

As for asking for pure donations: my feeling is that donation goals and transparency are very important for driving donations. Wikipedia[1] and archive.org have so much credibility and brand power that they can do basically whatever they want, but for smaller enterprises, it needs to be more considered.

I remember when reddit did their “oh god we need money” gambit: each day there was a progress bar indicating how much money reddit needed to receive that day to cover their bills, and that was quite compelling, people would donate to move the bar. I think a daily goal wouldn’t work for something smaller than reddit, but a monthly/yearly donation drive with a defined goal would be a good version of that. Asking people to donate because you’re 80% of the way towards raising the amount required to fund the service for another year is very different than just asking for a donation without any context.

Anyway, in conclusion, I would donate if I saw a donate banner, but I think I’m probably an outlier. I think if I were Mr. Kinopio and I wanted to build a financially sustainable product where donations are a meaningful part of what makes it sustainable, I’d probably go for the Patreon-style not-a-business model. As a person who makes things myself, the idea of using Patreon for subscriptions is, like, it boggles the mind, why use something janky like Patreon when I could use something good like Stripe? But it’s that janky grass-roots vibe that resonates with people.

I guess it’s like: if I went to a pricing page on a product website, I’d choose the lowest cost plan that meets my needs. If I went to a Patreon, I’d pick the most expensive option I could afford… even if it was the same product.

[1] Wikipedia is actually a bad example to follow because they exist in this weird space where the money they raise doesn’t really go towards funding Wikipedia the service we all know and love, it goes towards funding Wikipedia’s mission which is a much more complicated (and controversial) topic. The cost of Wikipedia’s servers is, like, 2% of their budget, it’s why they talk about a “goal” in their fundraising message but never actually define that goal, because people would question the numbers involved. Same with archive.org, that spends a lot of money on the litigation they oopsied their way into. A smaller enterprise has a lot more room to do things that get users much closer to seeing how every dollar actually matters.

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That totally makes sense, thanks for such a helpful, in-depth response!

I was thinking about also having a patreon and using it’s api to have patreon subscribers be upgraded, but managing that is a lot. I think the model that might work best in this context is

  • introducing an elevated ‘premium’ upgrade plan at a higher price for people who want to go above and beyond in their support of the project. (maybe there’s a better word for this tier than premium?)
  • provide those higher tier users with premium features. One premium feature could be somewhat customizable frames or special frames. I like the idea of premium users being able to do something that non-premium users can see, so the pride is sharable.

An alternative example is Read.cv’s concept of “supporters” which is a traditional paid plan + a list of the names of supporters.

(I only pay the default for Read.cv: I’m not completely sold on the idea of “name your own price”. I’d much rather be given a price point than be made to choose my own (since I have no idea if $6 vs. $10 vs. $12 vs. $20 vs. $50 actually matters to them) but that’s probably personal preference – it seems like name your own price is working for them! Maybe they could share some insight with you about how it works for them.)

Another example is Open Collective in general. Something I find interesting about Open Collective is the “Top financial contributors”. I feel completely neutral towards it, it does nothing for me, and maybe it does nothing for anyone else, but maybe that’s a concept that could be useful. Maybe some people are driven to support when they can see their support weighed against other’s?

provide those higher tier users with premium features. One premium feature could be somewhat customizable frames or special frames. I like the idea of premium users being able to do something that non-premium users can see, so the pride is sharable.

I like that idea too, more frames would be great :slight_smile:

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I think ‘name your own price’ works for read.cv is that it’s mainly a social network and so i’m sure a lot of people use the network for free for a long time before they pay, making them more inclined to want to name a higher price.

Implementation-wise, i think sublime.app has a pretty slider for diff payment amounts. But ya, something about the model I’m not a fan of either.

having a leaderboard of payers could be cool, but I think it makes more sense for a one time donation than a recurring payment w fixed amounts. That is something that could be added to the existing donation system , but as mentioned earlier that system isn’t the best fit it seems.

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They’ve announced they’re shutting down. I don’t know if that’s a bad sign for the supporter model or more of a reflection on the challenges of building a sustainable business around online CVs.

I think it’s more the latter, it’s hard out here for all small businesses. Getting ppl to pay for social media and resumes is extra tough

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